May I ask the student in the far back help collect the workbooks of your row.

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sitifan

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English Teacher
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1. May I ask the student in the far back help collect the workbooks of your row.
2. The students on duty help send down the workbooks, please.
3. Students in the far back please help collect your workbooks to the front.
4. Students on duty today please pass down the workbooks.
(All the above sentences are quoted from Taiwanese teachers of English)
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Eng-Class/M.1361759962.A.02D.html

Which of the above sentences is not acceptable to native speakers?
 
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sitifan said:
1. May I ask the students in the far back to collect the workbooks of your row?
2. The students on duty will send down the workbooks, please.
3. Students in the far back please help collect your workbooks to the front.
4. Students on duty today please pass down the workbooks.
(All the above sentences are quoted from Taiwanese teachers of English)
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Eng-Class/M.1361759962.A.02D.html

Which of the above sentences is not acceptable to native speakers?
Click to expand...

Please note changes.

I don't understand the use of "help" in those sentences. When you are helping somebody you are assisting them with something. In this case they are not helping. They are simply doing it.

I didn't do anything with sentence #3 because it is unfixable.

Sentence #4 is OK.

You are asking them to collect the workbooks and take them to the teacher's desk, right?
 
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Tarheel said:
I don't understand the use of "help" in those sentences. When you are helping somebody you are assisting them with something. In this case they are not helping. They are simply doing it.
Click to expand...
The word "help" is translated from the Classroom Chinese. Chinese speakers think those students help the teacher by collecting the workbooks.
Tarheel said:
You are asking them to collect the workbooks and take them to the teacher's desk, right?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sitifan, you have been here long enough to know that "Classroom English" wasn't a suitable title for this thread. You weren't asking us anything about the phrase "Classroom English". I have changed your thread title so that it contains the whole of sentence 1. I also removed the prefix "Idiom" from the thread. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with idioms.
 
sitifan said:
1. May I ask the student in the far back help collect the workbooks of your row.
2. The students on duty help send down the workbooks, please.
3. Students in the far back please help collect your workbooks to the front.
4. Students on duty today please pass down the workbooks.
(All the above sentences are quoted from Taiwanese teachers of English)
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Eng-Class/M.1361759962.A.02D.html

Which of the above sentences is not acceptable to native speakers?
Click to expand...

None of the sentences are natural as they stand.

If you want to incorporate the idea of "help" that you previously explained, these would work:

1. Can/Could/Would the students at the very back help me by collecting the workbooks from your row?
2. Can/Could/Would the students on duty help me by sending down their workbooks, please?
3. Students at the back! (shouting to get their attention) Please help me by collecting your workbooks and bringing them to the front.
4. Students on duty today! (to get their attention) Please pass all the workbooks to the front.
 
sitifan said:
The word "help" is translated from the Classroom Chinese. Chinese speakers think those students help the teacher by collecting the workbooks.
Click to expand...

I clicked on the link and visited the website. Is it supposed to be for teachers or students?

I am fairly sure there is no such thing as classroom English, but apparently there is such a thing as classroom Chinese.

If you are translating directly from Chinese to English that is probably a bad idea.

Some example sentences with help:

Let me help you.
May I help you with that?
She helped me study.
Would you help me with this?
She helped him with his chores.
Please help me put away the groceries.
 
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Tarheel said:
I clicked on the link and visited the website. Is it supposed to be for teachers or students?
I am fairly sure there is no such thing as classroom English, but apparently there is such a thing as classroom Chinese.
Click to expand...
Sorry. I don't know what your question means.
1. May I ask the student in the far back help collect the workbooks of your row. (by rivervalley)
2. The students on duty help send down the workbooks, please. (by rivervalley)
3. Students in the far back please help collect your workbooks to the front. (by trixy212)
4. Students on duty today please pass down the workbooks. (by trixy212)
There are two sentences of classroom Chinese which have been translated into English by Taiwanese teachers.
#1 and #3 are different translations of one Chinese sentence.
#3 and #4 are different translations of the other Chinese sentence.
 
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Tarheel said:
. . . I am fairly sure there is no such thing as classroom English, but apparently there is such a thing as classroom Chinese. . . .
Click to expand...
Aha! I was thinking Sitfan just meant they were things teachers say English class.

I wonder what classroom Chinese is.
 
sitifan said:
Sorry. I don't know what you mean.
Click to expand...
Tarheel wants to know what you mean by "classroom English." (I do, too!)

There is no special kind of English called classroom English.

Is there a kind of Chinese called classroom Chinese that is only used in school?

Or when you use the term classroom English, do you mean things an English teacher in China might say?
 
sitifan said:
Sorry. I don't know what you mean.
Click to expand...

I clicked on the link in post #1 and looked at the page you posted a link to.

You said you translated from classroom Chinese to classroom English.

Anything else?
 
Charlie Bernstein said:
There is no special kind of English called classroom English.
Is there a kind of Chinese called classroom Chinese that is only used in school?
Or when you use the term classroom English, do you mean things an English teacher in China might say?
Click to expand...
https://www.gifu-net.ed.jp/kyoka/eigo/CommunicativeEnglish/05-8aClassroom English.htm
Many textbooks contain a Classroom English section devoted to useful words and phrases that are often used during an English lesson. You can find them usually at the beginning or ending of a textbook and they may be titled something other than “Classroom English”.One of the benefits of using the classroom English in a textbook is the fact that students have access to the textbooks whenever they want and therefore have no excuse not to use classroom English.
 
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As a name for the vocabulary and expressions commonly used by teachers, "classroom English" is natural. We use it for vocabulary though, not for a particular variety of the language.
 
OK. Words and phrases used in the classroom.

They are not special to the classroom though. They are just things you will typically hear people say in a classroom.
 
GoesStation has said it, but just to be completely clear: Both classroom English and classroom Chinese refer to the set of linguistic items that are typically used by students and teachers in a classroom setting. They are not varieties of English or Chinese. They are often taught at the beginning of a language course, with the aim of equipping learners with the linguistic resources to navigate the lessons and the classroom environment. These linguistic items are most typically at the sentence level.
 
sitifan said:
https://www.gifu-net.ed.jp/kyoka/eigo/CommunicativeEnglish/05-8aClassroom English.htm
Many textbooks contain a Classroom English section devoted to useful words and phrases that are often used during an English lesson. You can find them usually at the beginning or ending of a textbook and they may be titled something other than “Classroom English”.One of the benefits of using the classroom English in a textbook is the fact that students have access to the textbooks whenever they want and therefore have no excuse not to use classroom English.
Click to expand...
Aha! Thanks!
 
I would say:

Many Chinese textbooks use it for teaching English ....

The page that that link takes you to has more Chinese on it than English, and the English sentences it does have are unnatural at best. They need help!

We got sidetracked. We should be focusing on using "help" in a sentence.
 
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help

I will help you with your homework.
I will help you learn English.
Jerry, would you help me clean up the room?
The sleep medicine helps me get to sleep.
She helped me carry my groceries home.
Please help me remember that.
Johnny helped his sister get out of the pool.
Thank you for helping!
 
sitifan said:
1. May I ask the student in the far back help collect the workbooks of your row.
2. The students on duty help send down the workbooks, please.
3. Students in the far back please help collect your workbooks to the front.
4. Students on duty today please pass down the workbooks.
(All the above sentences are quoted from Taiwanese teachers of English)
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Eng-Class/M.1361759962.A.02D.html

Which of the above sentences is not acceptable to native speakers?
Click to expand...

There's quite a lot to deal with here. I think we should look at them one at a time.

1. is too polite and ungrammatical, and unnatural.
2. is okay but written incorrectly. Its supposed to be an imperative.
3. is similarly written incorrectly and ungrammatical. You can't 'collect something to somewhere'.
4. is is good but written incorrectly , in the same way as 2.

Try this:

Would the students on duty bring the workbooks down to the front, please.

Notice I haven't used a question mark since this is not a question. The way I see it, from the point of view of a teacher, it's a command, thinly veiled as a polite request.
 
Then there's:

Collect the workbooks and bring them to the teacher's desk.

Or:

Collect the workbooks and bring them to the front of the room.

Spoken to whoever needs to hear it. (If I were the teacher I would use their names, since I would know them.)
 
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