CELTA- Initial qualification

Just to be clear- CELTA is an entry-level teaching qualification.
According to Cambridge ESOL "CELTA is an initial qualification for people with little or no previous teaching experience"
Cambridge ESOL: Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults (CELTA)
As they are the course providers, they should know.

They do say this. The course is intensive and my experience of it was that those who had teaching experience beforehand had a much easier time of it in that they weren't bogged down by basic issues which the new teachers were struggling with. We had an advantage there because we had experience.

ICAL_Pete said:

They do say this. The course is intensive and my experience of it was that those who had teaching experience beforehand had a much easier time of it in that they weren't bogged down by basic issues which the new teachers were struggling with. We had an advantage there because we had experience.

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Those of you new to this forum might like to know that ICAL_Pete is a firm believer in the value of online TEFL Certificates, which most teachers, trainers and employers view with suspicion.

He also believes that people who wish to take a CELTA or Trinity Cert TESOL course would fare better if they first took an online course offered by his company.

Finally he doubts the CELTA and Trinity course providers themself when they admit that their courses are 'an initial qualification for people with little or no previous teaching experience'. What else could a 4-week course be, when in most countries in the world a teaching qualifiation recognised by the government involves an absolute minimum of three years' training?

Of course, people with no degree or even A Level in English find the course hard going, but the pass rates suggest that it is achievable by nearly all who work hard.

So, ICAL Pete is entitled to his opinion, but you will find few in the profession who agree with him - except those providing online courses.

ICAL_Pete said:

They do say this. The course is intensive and my experience of it was that those who had teaching experience beforehand had a much easier time of it in that they weren't bogged down by basic issues which the new teachers were struggling with. We had an advantage there because we had experience.

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That wasn't my experience. I found the people with no experience or one year's experience adapted the best. Two people who had over 10 years experience each really struggled to adapt (and found accepting criticism of their teaching very difficult), although they did pass in the end. The only 3 people to get a Pass B had no teaching experience before the course. The two people who dropped out due to sub-standard lessons both had several years experience. I think a small amount of experience can help in the first few lessons (by which I mean proper classroom experience), but I think you should be doing the CELTA pretty soon into your career, and ideally spend the next couple of years at a school where they actually allow you to develop what you've learnt.

The reason I posted this was because there had been some arguing over what the CELTA is or is not and it was getting a bit heated.

It is a matter of fact and not a question of opinion that it is an entry-level qualification. It is a question of opinion whether it should or should not be- I think it should. ICAL_Pete, who openly declares his interest in this, argues the case for his courses.

Naturally, this means there is going to be disagreement over the issue, so I am asking that a) the facts are respected and the CELTA and Trinity courses are not presented as being something they are not, and b) the disagreements with those who present other views (and qualifications) are mannerly and challenge ideas rather than people.

fivejedjon said:

Those of you new to this forum might like to know that ICAL_Pete is a firm believer in the value of online TEFL Certificates, which most teachers, trainers and employers view with suspicion.

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Not quite true. A lot of employers are happy to accept our course and other online courses. Note also that parts of the CELTA course are also offered online now so CELTA is stepping in this direction as well and understand that many employers are happy with online certifications.

fivejedjon said:

He also believes that people who wish to take a CELTA or Trinity Cert TESOL course would fare better if they first took an online course offered by his company.

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No, I didn't say that at all so please don't put words into my mouth. I said I felt CELTA was better for teachers with experience.

fivejedjon said:

Finally he doubts the CELTA and Trinity course providers themself when they admit that their courses are 'an initial qualification for people with little or no previous teaching experience'.

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Well they have their agenda to push the same as anyone else does. They want their course to be as popular as possible so they're going to promote it thus.

fivejedjon said:

So, ICAL Pete is entitled to his opinion, but you will find few in the profession who agree with him - except those providing online courses.

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Thank you for allowing me my opinion. :roll:

Do you have any kind of statistics to back up the assertion that few in the profession agree with me? I ask because online courses are immensely popular (see CELTA making part of their course online above; I wonder if it will ever go fully online like ours?) and there are many, many teachers and teacher trainers out there involved in online courses.

Quite simply, if people didn't think that online courses were useful and effective they wouldn't exist.

But this is perhaps straying from the topic. Is CELTA a course for those without experience? Some say yes, some say no.

Tdol said:

I am asking that... the disagreements with those who present other views (and qualifications) are mannerly and challenge ideas rather than people.

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Tdol is right, Pete. My apologies to you (and other thread-users) if my initial response to your first posting was too personal. We can continue this discussion via PMs if you are interested.

I got a TESOL certificate 12 years ago and now everyone is talking about the CELTA. Does this mean I should go back and get the CELTA??

Thing is, I've been teaching abroad for 12 years and would like to return to teach in the UK. What are my prospects with a TESOL? I posted this question on another forum and was told I should expect low pay and low job security. Somewhat deflating as I want to continue my career but not as an expat. Wondering if there's a good strategy to achieve this.

joolzey said:

I got a TESOL certificate 12 years ago and now everyone is talking about the CELTA. Does this mean I should go back and get the CELTA??

Thing is, I've been teaching abroad for 12 years and would like to return to teach in the UK. What are my prospects with a TESOL? I posted this question on another forum and was told I should expect low pay and low job security. Somewhat deflating as I want to continue my career but not as an expat. Wondering if there's a good strategy to achieve this.

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There are some establishments that insist on a CELTA (or its predecessors) or a Trinity Cert for newly qualified teachers. Whatever the nature of your qualification, I doubt if anyone will be too picky about a person with 12 years' experience.

The point about low pay and prospects is to do with the UK, not with your qualifications, I am afraid. Just look at the ads. I don't know how people survive in the UK. Of course, if you have a teaching qualification recognised by the Department for Education (or whatever it is called today), that's a different kettle of fish - then there may be openings in the state system, where pay is considerably less bad than in the private sector.

ICAL_Pete said:

I ask because online courses are immensely popular (see CELTA making part of their course online above; I wonder if it will ever go fully online like ours?) and there are many, many teachers and teacher trainers out there involved in online courses.

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It's impossible to do a practical teaching component online, so no they won't. The six hours observed teaching is what makes a CELTA and other certificates respected (as well as a legal requirement for teachers in countries like the one I'm in). To me, an online teaching course makes about as much sense as an online driving course. Without actually doing it, there's a severe limit to what you can learn. Not only that, but I'd question how useful a lot of the theory on the CELTA course would be outside of the context of regular teaching with feedback. Teaching is a practical profession, so without a practical component, the CELTA would be pretty pointless.

Quite simply, if people didn't think that online courses were useful and effective they wouldn't exist.

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If people didn't think homeopathy was effective, it wouldn't exist either. The popularity of something isn't evidence of its effectiveness. Note, I'm not claiming your courses have nothing to offer, just that this isn't a particularly good argument for their effectiveness.

But just on the employer attitude thing, I've only ever seen two types of advert for an entry-level ELT position. The first is degree plus CELTA or equivalent. The second is degree plus nothing. So where do online courses fit into all this?

Speaking as someone who has just finished her first week of a CELTA course today, perhaps my perspective might be interesting?

I've been a private tutor of English (to native speakers, mostly children working for GCSEs) for ten years. I probably am finding the course easier than those with zero teaching experience, certainly, but I wouldn't say I am finding it easy, and I don't know anyone who is. Of course it's only natural that people with some previous experience at something may find training in it easier than those who don't. I dare say people with teaching experience would find an online course easier than those without it too.

Certainly, they are trying to fit a lot in to the 120 hours, but they were very clear about the fact it would be a demanding and intensive course before I signed up for it.

I don't think that it is exclusively suited to people with experience, though. The way the course is taught, and the materials provided, so far seem to really cover every aspect from the most basic upwards.

Surely it's not about what level people have when they go into the course, but what level they have when they come out of it? As long as CELTA doesn't pass people not of an acceptable standard by the end, and as long as it gives everyone signing up and paying their money over to them the required level of support and guidance so that the only thing stopping people passing becomes their own talent (because no matter how good the teaching, sometimes people just aren't suited to something) or their own commitment and willingness to work, then I don't see the issue.

Yes, CELTA seems *hard*. What's so wrong with that? Why should courses and qualifications be easy?

It seems to me another symptom of all I find worst about modern culture that people are demanding everything be "easy" and that everyone should be able to achieve everything. Not everyone can or should be a teacher - maybe I'll get to the end of the course and not be good enough, maybe I'll get to the end of the course and be good enough. But I don't think I shouldn't have to work at it!


[Oh and I chose CELTA after a fair amount of research at looking what qualifications were asked of NQTs. I don't remember seeing a single job ad that said online qualifications were acceptable; it was all a combination of experience/CELTA or Trinity Cert. I wouldn't have gone near an online course if they paid me, because it's the contact time with students offered by the face-to-face courses that I personally believe will be most valuable for me.]

I wonder what are the most crucial issues to bear in mind while choosing the 'right' CELTA centre.
After days of google search, I'd appreciate any additional information like personal experience, tips or whatever.
The UK is the country I am particularly interested in, yet it's not final.

Esgaleth, it could be difficult to get past the marketing blurb to find the right CELTA centre. Word of mouth would be a good way of finding one, or a recognised name like International House might be a safe bet.

Mattl,
Word of mouth /or mouse/ is what I am looking for. I wish I could do it at IH but I absolutely can't make their dates. And, to be honest, I'd rather be elsewhere but not in London during the Olympic Games.
Thanks for your time anyway.

They are, in theory, equal. A course with a recognised name may catch people's eye on a CV, but it is the qualification that matters as it is the one that opens doors. I wouldn't worry too much about not doing it at IH, and not being in London during the Olympics makes a lot of sense to me.

hello everyone

I intend to do my CELTA in the near future.

Can you provide me with the tasks and the assignments that you have done in the course?
So I would have a much clear idea of things ahead!


I do NOT want to fail!
I am really afraid


thank you in advance

Most people pass- they should only give places to people who have a decent chance of passing.

Familiarise yourself with the course here: http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/exams-and-qualifications/celta/

And don't ask for people's assignments.

Tdol said:

Most people pass- they should only give places to people who have a decent chance of passing.

Familiarise yourself with the course here: http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/exams-and-qualifications/celta/

And don't ask for people's assignments.

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thank you for your replay dear

hhh, am not asking for people's assignments, all what I ask for is an idea of the sort of such assignments!


anyway,
I dont know but it seems that the link is not working!

I've just tested the link and it's working. Here's the CELTA brochure (pdf): http://www.cambridgeenglish.org/Images/celta-brochure-2013.pdf

I am highly skeptical of CELTA for various reasons. As a former President of an international college network, I would never employ and never have employed any native ESl teacher with a CELTA but without a relevant degree in a language-related subject area. I have seen many native CELTA graduates making errors/mistakes in their written English like confusing "its" and "it's". They are simply lacking essential grammar knowledge of their native language.

I'm With Stupid said:

It's impossible to do a practical teaching component online, so no they won't. The six hours observed teaching is what makes a CELTA and other certificates respected (as well as a legal requirement for teachers in countries like the one I'm in). To me, an online teaching course makes about as much sense as an online driving course. Without actually doing it, there's a severe limit to what you can learn. Not only that, but I'd question how useful a lot of the theory on the CELTA course would be outside of the context of regular teaching with feedback. Teaching is a practical profession, so without a practical component, the CELTA would be pretty pointless.


If people didn't think homeopathy was effective, it wouldn't exist either. The popularity of something isn't evidence of its effectiveness. Note, I'm not claiming your courses have nothing to offer, just that this isn't a particularly good argument for their effectiveness.

But just on the employer attitude thing, I've only ever seen two types of advert for an entry-level ELT position. The first is degree plus CELTA or equivalent. The second is degree plus nothing. So where do online courses fit into all this?

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