at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development (article use)

If your child or client is functioning within level one of the VB-MAPP (The Verbal Behavior Milestones Assessment and Placement Program),
that would be equivalent to functioning at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of a typical development.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRXLQ4MWnnQ (1.14 - 1.27)

Why was a used? There is only one 0 to 18 month development level and one kind of typical development. I mean development can be either typical or atypical, it's a binary opposition. Of course, there might be variations in development, but every one of them would fall into one or the other kind, wouldn't they?

I'm also not sure how to write the level's name correctly:
a zero to eighteen month level
a zero-to-eighteen-month level
a 0-18 month level
a 0-to-18 month level
a 0 to 18 month level

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

The word "level" is a countable noun so it requires an article.

In my opinion, the indefinite article before "typical development" should not be there.

There's a word missing after "functioning" in the opening part.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

emsr2d2 said:

The word "level" is a countable noun so it requires an article.

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The question is whether it should be a or the.

emsr2d2 said:

In my opinion, the indefinite article before "typical development" should not be there.

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Does this mean that you would use the?

emsr2d2 said:

There's a word missing after "functioning" in the opening part.

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Thank you! I've added is, but it's before "functioning".

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Alexey86 said:

The question is whether it should be a or the.

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It should be "a". In contexts like this, we say things like "You should be working at a level commensurate with your experience". I can't make a great argument against "the" but a grammarian might be able to.

Does this mean that you would use the?

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No. "typical development" is uncountable so there shouldn't be an article at all.

Thank you! I've added is, but it's before "functioning".

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Thanks. I wasn't sure if it was your typo or a mistake in the original.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

emsr2d2 said:

It should be "a". In contexts like this, we say things like "You should be working at a level commensurate with your experience". I can't make a great argument against "the" but a grammarian might be able to.

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I would also use a in your example because "commensurate with your experience" is not actually the name of the level, it's just your personal description. But suppose there were an area of studies classifying levels people work at and defining one of them as commensurate with experience. Now that the level is a part of the classification scheme, would you use the (the commensurate with experience level)?

emsr2d2 said:

No. "typical development" is uncountable so there shouldn't be an article at all.

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Maybe she didn't say a, and I just misheard her. But the wouldn't make development countable, just definite.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Hold on—am I the only one who thinks she does not say a before typical development. She stutters but I don't think she actually utters an article there.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Alexey86 said:

I mean development can be either typical or atypical, it's a binary opposition. Of course, there might be variations in development, but every one of them would fall into one or the other kind, wouldn't they?

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Yes but if she did say a, that wouldn't necessarily imply different types of development. There could be other reasons for using the article.

Anyway, I don't think that's worth discussing since I'm not convinced she actually says it.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

jutfrank said:

Hold on—am I the only one who thinks she does not say a before typical development. She stutters but I don't think she actually utters an article there.

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jutfrank said:

I don't think that's worth discussing since I'm not convinced she actually says it.

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It's worth consulting primary sources! I hadn't looked at the video. I'm not just not convinced she said "a typical development"; I don't hear even a hint of the indefinite article. She doesn't say it.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

In all honesty, I hadn't watched the video either. She makes a slight sound, possibly she's swallowing or just breathing, before "typical development" but she doesn't say "a" (so the subtitles are wrong).

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

jutfrank said:

Anyway, I don't think that's worth discussing since I'm not convinced she actually says it.

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I've listened to her one more time. She doesn't really say a, just takes a little pause. I was mislead by the subtitles.

What about a vs the before zero to eighteen month level?

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Alexey86 said:

What about a vs the before zero to eighteen month level?

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Alexey86 said:

The question is whether it should be a or the.

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I assume that your question here is your way of suggesting the speaker made an error. I would disagree with that. The question should really be why she used an indefinite article there.

My feeling is that the speaker is quite uncertain about the whole sentence so I don't think it's a great example to analyse. However, I'll try to deal with the question as I understand it to exist in your mind.

You have an idea that the use of an indefinite article is evidence that a speaker is referring to a specific type (in your words 'one of many') Is that fair to say? That's how I understand your thinking in post #1 and #5, and that's why you're wondering why a definite article would be preferable. Am I on the right lines?

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

jutfrank said:

I assume that your question here is your way of suggesting the speaker made an error. I would disagree with that. The question should really be why she used an indefinite article there.

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You're right it should be why.

jutfrank said:

You have an idea that the use of an indefinite article is evidence that a speaker is referring to a specific type (in your words 'one of many') Is that fair to say? That's how I understand your thinking in post #1 and #5, and that's why you're wondering why a definite article would be preferable. Am I on the right lines?

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As I understand it, the indefinite article is about elements of classes/sets. When I say "I drive a German car", I basically mean "I drive a thing that is an instance of the class of German cars." So, "a 0 to 18 month level of typical development" sounds to me as if there were at least one more 0 to 18 month level of typical development.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Alexey86 said:

As I understand it, the indefinite article is about elements of classes/sets. When I say "I drive a German car", I basically mean "I drive a thing that is an instance of the class of German cars."

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Yes. That's a clear example.

So, "a 0 to 18 month level of typical development" sounds to me as if there were at least one more 0 to 18 month level of typical development.

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Yes, okay, I think I've understood your question properly. I just wanted to check with you to make sure. I'll tell you how I understand this usage:

The indefinite article here does not serve to discriminate one class of level from other classes. This is where it differs from the 'German car' example above. What it does is propose a discrimination between this instance of this class of level and other instances of the same class of level.

I'll give you another example to consider, since I'm not very happy to work with the one we're using. As a teacher, I might very naturally say something in reference to one of my students:

He's at an intermediate level.

Now, I don't feel a need to use a definite article here. The way that I understand what I say 'from the inside' is that in my mind there are imagined to be countless students at this level, and that this particular student's level is a particular instantiation of all of these possible intermediate levels. There is an implied contrast with other levels, yes (in fact, the utterance doesn't really make sense without such a contrast), but the idea is essentially of this particular instance of this particular level.

I hope that makes some sense. As you know, understanding the intricacies of how language refers to thought is just about the hardest possible thing to understand in all of semantics.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

jutfrank said:

There is an implied contrast with other levels, yes (in fact, the utterance doesn't really make sense without such a contrast), but the idea is essentially of this particular instance of this particular level.

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I understand this, but it doesn't make sense to me logically. I'll put the whole passage here again:

If your child or client is functioning within level one of the VB-MAPP (The Verbal Behavior Milestones Assessment and Placement Program),
that would be equivalent to functioning at a zero-to-eighteen-month level of typical development.

If I were the speaker, my main idea would be that of the equivalence of level one of the VB-MAPP to the 0 to 18 month level of typical development in contrast to other levels. I see absolutely no point in discriminating instances within this level, because it's a level-to-level comparison, not a level-to-other level's instance one, which would seem logically flawed to me.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Note that the writer hyphenated the long compound adjective. You should have done the same in the thread's title.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

GoesStation said:

Note that the writer hyphenated the long compound adjective. You should have done the same in the thread's title.

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Done. The "writer" is me. I'm still not sure how to write it correctly.

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Alexey86 said:

If I were the speaker, my main idea would be that of the equivalence of level one of the VB-MAPP to the 0 to 18 month level of typical development in contrast to other levels. I see absolutely no point in discriminating instances within this level, because it's a level-to-level comparison, not a level-to-other level's instance one, which would seem logically flawed to me.

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Right. That kind of explains the trouble you're having, I suppose. Fair enough.

But let me ask you this. Imagine we're walking in the street and I point and say to you:

That's a nice Ferrari.

What do you think I'm distinguishing in this case?

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

jutfrank said:

But let me ask you this. Imagine we're walking in the street and I point and say to you:

That's a nice Ferrari.

What do you think I'm distinguishing in this case?

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It means that within the set of Ferrari cars you're distinguishing the subset of nice Ferraries from the subset of not nice ones. The utterance can be reworded as "That's an instance of the subset of nice Ferraries, not of the 'not nice' ones, within the set of Frerrari cars."

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

Alexey86 said:

It means that within the set of Ferrari cars you're distinguishing the subset of nice Ferraries from the subset of not nice ones. The utterance can be reworded as "That's an instance of the subset of nice Ferraries, not of the 'not nice' ones, within the set of Frerrari cars."

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There's no "e" in "Ferraris".

I think jutfrank was asking about why he chose "that" rather than "it" or "this".

Re: at a zero to eighteen month level of a typical development (article use)

GoesStation said:

I think jutfrank was asking about why he chose "that" rather than "it" or "this".

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"That" singles out an object and distinguishes it from any other objects: "That object (not this one or any other) is a nice Ferarri = That object (not this one or any other) is an instance of the subset of nice Ferraris, not of the 'not nice' ones, within the set of Frerrari cars."

I don't quite follow. What does "that" have to do with the level example?